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I keep hearing from people that I should be impressed with what Jesus did, and be grateful to him. Even if we assume that it's true, I'm not impressed.

1) He knew he would be resurrected after 3 days. Why would you be afraid of dying very much under such circumstances? I wouldn't be.

2) He sacrificed himself to himself so that he could forgive. Why not save a step, and just forgive? There is no reason for an innocent person to suffer - it doesn't make the situation any better. Human sacrifice does not work. If you think it does, well you are a Christian.

3) He knew that he would spend an eternity in heaven after a day of suffering on the cross. The physical pain he felt is not very much compared to someone dying from cancer or hunger - and neither do those people have a choice in the matter. Also, any person in hell endures infinitely more physical suffering than Jesus did. They also aren't glorified for their suffering like a.. :p

4) He wanted to be crucified, indeed that was his plan to begin with. It's not as if he wanted any other outcome at all. Would you feel sorry for a masochist who hurts himself on purpose if he's got the ability to avoid the pain altogether?

5) Punishing an innocent person does not absolve the sins of the guilty - especially those haven't even been born. That's a sick and twisted idea of justice. It's also silly to consider them guilty for something someone else had done, but that's another topic.

Merry Christmas :D
  • Reading: karl popper
  • Playing: olympic lifts and plyometrics for 2 weeks
  • Eating: dropping the fat
  • Drinking: tea
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:iconniki-ray:
Niki-Ray Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Good words
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:icontamitw:
TamiTw Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I asked this question when I attended church one day, and the priest said that the crucifixion is to remind us of what God and Jesus has done for us. It is a symbol of forgiveness where God, sacrificed his own son for the cruelty of man here on earth. It is to prove the miracle of his resurrection and the degree of love he feels for us (his children). So I guess if it was a statue of Jesus with open arms and flowers around him, it would just be beautiful but the impact will be smaller. Whereas, him on the crucifix is a reminder of the pain and suffering he went through. Despite knowing that he will be reunited with his father and that he will resurrect and ascend into heaven, he still went through with the torture and during the process, he kept begging :" Father, please forgive them". Instead of yelling them to stop or just committing suicide or asking his apostles to give him a fast death for a quick entry into heaven. Therefore, I believe that the punishment implemented on Jesus by the Romans are the metaphor for man being out of control- where apparently God created man in their purest form and free from sin. But man in their nature developed evil and personalities exhbiting unfavourable characteristics. They did not have faith nor believed that Jesus was a miracle and God's son, so in order to prove that he is real etc, Jesus had to be tortured and killed. (God did not make this happen, but foresaw it and even told Jesus. That is why Jesus had the last supper, it was to spend time with his loved ones and prepare for the crucifixion, rather than flea-ing like how most people would if they knew they would go through the torture.

That is just my point of view. I am a Roman Catholic, and I do have faith. But I contradict my religion a bit because I think there is only one god but he comes in many different forms. It all comes down to what an individual believes. Religion is all part and parcel of faith, hope and something to turn to in fear of death/after life, pain etc. So sometimes asking too many questions (like I do) usually ends up with heated conversations with TRUE believers or it just makes you confused, frustrated and lost. So it is best to sink into the religion with which you are comfortable with :)

Sorry for the lengthy response! Take care !
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:iconbitteryetsweet:
bitteryetsweet Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013
And now you're officially cool to me. Happy early birthday, just in case I miss it.
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:iconstevefox00:
SteveFox00 Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Bless you and your rational thoughts and people like you :iconlinkhappyplz:

May I ask how come your name is Ivan Andreevich?
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:iconivanandreevich:
IvanAndreevich Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Professional Photographer
What do you mean? :D
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:iconstevefox00:
SteveFox00 Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Well it's not very common for Canadians to have Slavic names. :)
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:iconivanandreevich:
IvanAndreevich Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Professional Photographer
I was born in Russia. I'm not Canadian, I just live here.
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:iconstevefox00:
SteveFox00 Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Oh, that's nice. :)
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:iconimke14:
imke14 Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
For today's weather, a high chance of shitstorm with logic coming from East.


I love the Marry Christmas at the end xD
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:icontheartisticgenius:
TheArtisticGenius Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I do partially agree with your fifth point there. If our sins are forgiven, does that mean that if we went and did something horrible and came back and said that Jesus is god or whatever, sins are forgiven?
And I have never heard of an instance in which an innocent person could be punished for another's sin. And if Jesus died for our sins, then why did he die? God doesn't die. If Jesus is our Lord, how does that make sense? God can't be a human who died.

And dying to forgive all of humanity doesn't make sense either, why can't he just forgive the people if they just pray or such? In Islam, Allah is all forgiving, but is very just at the same time. One person dying to forgive all of humanity doesn't balance out, though, in Christianity's example.

If anyone is Christian here and wants to reply back, feel free to do so. I'm open to conversations.

Salaam. :)
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:icontheartisticgenius:
TheArtisticGenius Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I also wonder why people glorify the cross so much. It killed your 'Lord' Jesus. If an axe killed your mother or something, would you wear an axe on your neck or glorify it? Wouldn't that just bring pain to your mind? Just a thought.
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:icontamitw:
TamiTw Featured By Owner Jan 3, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I responded to your question in the general thread so that IvanAndreevich can read it as well :) Hope it helps!
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:icontheartisticgenius:
TheArtisticGenius Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'll read it. Thank you. :)
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:iconazula35:
Azula35 Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
I think especially the last one is a pretty good point... it IS a twisted idea that after torturing an innocent person humanity is forgiven for being cruel... it's contradicting, because that'd be like earning heaven out of sin, and you're supposed not to have great sin in order to go there. I guess it could have been meant to represent that the ability to forgive leads not to endure the hell of having grudges, but... i suppose the interpretation got... strange.
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Oh man so many people have their 'fact' so screwed up.

But anyway this is an ART site, not a place for religious or political banter. Please keep it that way. Those of us who believe don't really want our beliefs bashed. It's evident you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Pick up the bible and actually read it. Thanks.

It's sad, your work is good but I'm going to have to unfollow you. It's fine if you want to express your beliefs through art, but journals like this are just disgraceful.
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:icontheartisticgenius:
TheArtisticGenius Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Even if it is just an art site, you are allowed to post political and religious art, you know. And these journals are here for each deviant to use to write what they wish to.

If you don't want to 'listen to his bantering', then just un-watch his journals, you have the freedom to do so.

Also, he isn't hating on the religion, he's expressing his opinions about it, so he's free to do that, too. Why don't you go argue with the people who actually post inappropriate and hateful art instead of journals? That kind of stuff can be reported.

Peace :)
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:iconremever:
RemEver Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
I'm just going to say this. If you think what he says is disgraceful, why don't you go back in time to when Christianity was first formed. They tortured and killed those who didn't believe in what they believed in and they pretty much banned any other religion because it wasn't what they believed in. Christianity is the only thing that is disgraceful. Yeah it seems all rainbows and ass-sprinkles now, but back in the day it was anything but.

As for telling him "this is an ART site, not a place for religious or political banter. Please keep it that way. Those of us who believe don't really want our beliefs bashed." thats very hypocritical. Its okay for others to post good things about their religion, but when someone else has a different opinion on it, thats when things like this gets said. Go ahead and unwatch him, i don't think he would really care, but if you dont want others bashing on you for what you believe in, don't come here, or anywhere else where your beliefs are clearly being bashed and tell them not to bash on it. Its like trying to tell a religious person to quit trying to shove their beliefs down our throats.
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
No shit Sherlock. I know all about my religion, as I've been studying it MY WHOLE LIFE.

Oh I didn't realize I'd shoved any beliefs down anyone's throat, moron. Get a life. Adios.
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:icontheartisticgenius:
TheArtisticGenius Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
That was a bit rude, don't you think?

Just saying. ^^;
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:iconcorvuscorax92:
CorvusCorax92 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
What a great example you are of the warm, loving people that religion claims to foster. You are the only disgrace on this page. You may follow whatever faith you choose, or none at all, as may we all--but don't claim to follow Jesus of Nazareth and his supposedly high ideals while so quickly descending to such base behavior over a comment on the internet. You must be a real winner in person.
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:iconremever:
RemEver Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Thats great you've wasted your life studying something so vile, congratulations, someone should give you a cookie.

I never said you did, i said telling people not to bash on religion is like telling a religious person not to shove their beliefs down other's throats, learn to read. Moron? Wow, i thought you were supposed to be the adult here. How old is your mentality? Five no less. I'd tell you to get a life, but you had one and then you wasted it studying your book of fairy tales and cult of lies :/ i feel bad for you. Wiedersehen Dummkopf :3
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
Christianity isn't vile, and your comment to say such a thing shows how really ignorant you are. You're so quick to judge our religion but I highly doubt you've really looked in depth into it, because if you did do research and actually practiced this faith you wouldn't be speaking so blindly and you would actually understand it.. clearly you don't because you're just placing your own disrespectful and non factual opinions all over this post.. CONGRATS BRO.
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:iconremever:
RemEver Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
It may not be AS vile now, yet it is still vile, but take a look back k. All religion is, is a BELIEF system, yet people treat it like its their whole entire life and fact, when its not. Oh im not quick to judge, believe me i've grown up indifferent about religion and even thought (and was forced to church) about practicing it, and then my eyes were opened. I dont need religion to lead my life and make my decisions. thats for stupid people. I've done some research dear, but not a whole lot because i dont care what your religion has to say mostly because everything it has to say is in the name of your imaginary friend. Disrespectful and non factual eh, hypocrite much? The bible is as nonfactual as you claim me to be, yet here you type before me, poorly defending it and trying to push me down. Do you not see the damage religion causes? From what I've heard its OKAY to rape women and they cant do anything about it, and its OKAY to abuse your children because your sick religion said so, and its OKAY to kill homosexuals and call it unnatural and a sin when its not. No, i take all of this back, its not entirely the religion that is sick but its fanclub. You people twist it to your own personal gain, and most of you even use it to discriminate against those who are different. In the past, you have killed those for not believing in what you believe in, you have stolen the rights and freedoms from those before you, AKA Native Americans, Romans who werent Christians, and countless others, just to convert them to this jacked up religion of yours. There are good sides i will admit, but the bad outweigh the good for me and for most of us non-followers. So before you go around to us non-followers, please try to take a look at it from OUR perspective because our hatred for it didn't fucking grow over night. SO CONGRATS TO YOU, YA BUTT-STICK.
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
reading all of this, you're still very unaware of my religion and you really have no proof to show me anything otherwise. lol
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:iconremever:
RemEver Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
And you have just proven yourself to fit the stereotype of your idiotic religion. You are obviously unaware of the aspects of YOUR OWN religion that i just pointed out. Clearly you only look on the bright side of life, so you must be very sheltered, in which case, i wish you luck friend, for when you decide to grow up, life is going to hand you a new asshole. :)

As for no proof, why don't you go take a history class instead of trying to grab fact from your book of fairy tales eh. And if that doesn't help your ignorant ass, then you are a lost cause who has submitted to brainwash. We bow down to the loss of a fellow human being, may you be remembered as the cowardly soldier who didn't fight at all against the temptations of the false, and may you be cursed by Arceus and thrown out to Darkrai. Amen.
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(1 Reply)
:iconbmrrman:
bmrrman Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012
I ask one favor, and one favor only, please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. the slanting and minimalization of edicts and principles of salvation history and the theology of Christ, is....severe. the Fathers of the Church and the Magisterium of the Faith are much more educated in these matters than I. this is not an attempt at conversion simply to recognize where we are coming from. the Agony in the Garden shows Even Christ knew doubt and fear, "Father, if it is your will that this cup pass from my lips" part of the Key, which the Catechism makes clear, Christ died on the cross for each of us, born or unborn, whether we accept it or not, He suffered died and was buried for us.
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Amen to this!
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:iconbmrrman:
bmrrman Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
thanks. I let someone have their reasons for unbelief, but if its a wacky mistruth...no
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Exactly! I tend not to get into religious arguments unless the person offended me. And then I defend my religion to the ground.
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:iconoligo481:
Oligo481 Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Clearly, the person you say this to does not believe your religion. Saying this will do absolutely nothing to convince him, or any other non-believers. Consider that not everyone accepts your doctrine as fact.
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Plant the seed. Jesus does the rest.
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:iconoligo481:
Oligo481 Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
I assume this is a troll response.
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
I didn't realize trolls had brains and could put 2 thoughts together. Grow up.
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:iconoligo481:
Oligo481 Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
That's not very kind. You weren't very clear as to what you were saying, and if you can't communicate properly, how am I to know your intent?
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:iconsexxylilladybug:
sexxylilladybug Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
LOL!!! I explained myself very clearly. But if you can't read the bible, I guess I should expect you to read my comment. Have a great day. Bye.
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:iconoligo481:
Oligo481 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
Your original comment, in case you can't tell what I was responding to, was in direct contrast, almost, some would say, to a satirical extent, with my previous words. Clearly, I am not influenced by the pro-religious words of people like you, so saying 'Plant the seed, Jesus does the rest', seemed to me to be a troll response because of its extreme degree of silliness.
Also, I would appreciate if you remain calm and civil in discussion, it's hard to understand people when they're too busy laughing at you.
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(1 Reply)
:iconcrater2711:
Crater2711 Featured By Owner Dec 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm pretty sure he's talking about your first reply idiot. Ya know you are the worst at making sense i have seen all week. Anyone who reads the bible has just corrupted their brain, and since you do read the bible i dont expect you to be able to respond properly in conversation, let alone see the world how it really is. You're too old for an imaginary friend lady. Grow up.
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(1 Reply)
:iconbmrrman:
bmrrman Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012
clearly, I stated that I never expected conversion or enlightenment or anything else. Consider, I dont give a sweet damn who accepts my doctrine or not its mine... but if I am going to listen to someone lump Roman Catholicism in with every other tom dick and harry pseudo Christian sect from the last 50 years with The Holy Mother Church of Rome which is 2,000 plus years old, and the worlds oldest continuous unbroken societal group, I was simply saying, read the Catechism to be given reasons WHY Christians believe what Christ's suffering, death and Resurrection means... why we follow it... Sun Tzu said, study and know the ways of your opponent or someone you are trying to know. well, we have a book that explains in order everything we believe and why... I am not looking to show him the way, simply to give his reasons creedence.
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:iconoligo481:
Oligo481 Featured By Owner Dec 29, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
I see - I interpreted your earlier comment differently than it appears you intended it to be viewed. Thank you for clarifying.
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:iconbmrrman:
bmrrman Featured By Owner Dec 30, 2012
No problem, take care.
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:iconfalcolf:
Falcolf Featured By Owner Dec 28, 2012  Professional Filmographer
lol, this is great XD

I really don't consider religion or Christianity at all on Christmas. I know it's called CHRIST-mas but nobody even knows when the bloody man was born, if he lived at all and if he did, he wasn't born on Christmas. That was a thing a bishop or some other religious nutter did to get the pagans into Christianity by mixing Christ into their existing holiday. Pretty clever of him, but he's a douche bag for thrusting his religion on others. As far as I'm concerned, most of the stuff in the bible is as fanciful as any other fairytale. (The only difference is is how creepily blindly some people believe it.)
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
isn't*
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
you're a hypocrite for partaking in Christmas when it's with religious affiliation.. and like you said as far as you're concerned, but you're one person with your own opinions that the bible is a fairytale.. and there's way too much evidence against you to show that our religion is just a "fairytale".
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:iconkamieno:
Kamieno Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Uhhh, I'm not Christian, but I celebrate Christmas.
Christmas is a holiday for anyone to enjoy, regardless of religion, race, sex (gender), sexuality, skills, talent, everything. Christmas can just be a day to be enjoyed by others who DON'T celebrate it.
For us non-Christians/Catholics, it's a day for giving, receiving and being with family.
So please, don't say it's only for your religion :XD:
If you reply to this I'm just going to delete it because I believe my point is valid and yours, quite frankly, isn't, unless you agree with me. :D
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2013
Well your point really isn't valid, because it's meant to celebrate the birth of Christ whether you and your family are religious or not it's not just a day of receiving from your family.. it's people like you that annoy me but please do go ahead and delete my comment aslong as you see it lol
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:iconfalcolf:
Falcolf Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013  Professional Filmographer
Christmas is whatever you personally perceive it as - for me, it is not religious whatsoever. Everyone has a right to see it their own way and as you are trolling, kindly do not reply. My comment was for IvanAndreevich, not for you.
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 2, 2013
No it's not however you perceive it is, that's what is really messed up we get all these people being hypocrites and bending what they don't agree with to make it their own...the fact of the matter is that christmas is to celebrate the birth of Christ... I'm not trolling you're just a hypocrite.
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:iconfalcolf:
Falcolf Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Professional Filmographer
NO. If Christmas WAS still universally about celebrating the birth of Christ, we'd be pronouncing it 'KRIST-MASS' but we don't - we pronounce it 'KRIS-MUS' which really just makes it a nonsense word born of slang. Seriously, you are trolling though because people have the right to believe whatever they believe in without having other people getting into their business, which is what you're doing. I am not a hypocrite for doing what I believe in. Christmas as I know it, the way I personally celebrate it as my winter holiday, is a family holiday devoid of Christianity and it is my right to call what I celebrate whatever I want. Why the hell should I call it something else? It's NOT Yule or Kwansaa or Hanukkah. It's MY winter holiday and I'll be damned (figure of speech) if I'm going to call what I celebrate anything other than Christmas. 'Winter Holiday' sounds absolutely stupid in my opinion and just because I am not Christian and do not believe in some omniscient being, does not take away my right to call Christmas, Christmas. The fact is, is that I, LIKE ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE IN MY COUNTRY came from a long line of religious people who called it Christmas. It DOES NOT MATTER that I do not share my ancestor's religious beliefs! I was raised calling Christmas, Christmas and if I ever have children (kids I will not be raising in any religion) they will call it Christmas too. It will be a wonderful family holiday for them about celebrating each other, giving, food and yes, Santa Claus and the silly reindeer. They will not be hypocrites. Christmas is whatever you make of it and again, EVERYONE has the right to make it whatever they want - religious or not. 'Christmas' is JUST a name, a word, a vocally produced sound - people have a right to use it and apply it to things as they will.

So stop trolling for the sake of giving yourself the pleasure of being an ass to random people and please, don't reply. I appreciate that your opinion is that I and many other people are hypocrites because I strongly believe that everyone has a right to their own opinion, but there is absolutely no point in telling me yours just because you disagree with me - neither of us gain anything from this exchange except perhaps a bit of raised blood pressure. You will not be able to convince me and I will not be able to convince you, so you must be able to agree that you are wasting your energy.
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:iconheureuseimvu:
HeureuseIMVU Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013
I didn't even bother reading this because you're points don't sound any where close to factual
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:iconfalcolf:
Falcolf Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2013  Professional Filmographer
You're a jerk. Bye.
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